Cristina Stefan is a Global Finance Director for Orbia Building & Infrastructure (Wavin) – a global leader in innovative, healthy and sustainable solutions for the building and infrastructure industry. From clean water distribution to accessible sanitation, climate resilience to comfortable living spaces, Orbia B&I collaborate with municipal leaders, engineers, and contractors in 90+ countries worldwide, to future-proof communities and make a positive impact on people’s lives.

We took 30 minutes to tap into Cristina’s thoughts on diversity and inclusion, the skills that separate the good from the great in finance and her advice on standing out in an increasingly competitive job market.

How can leaders create diverse teams?

Firstly, I think you need open-minded leaders in place who truly and authentically believe in the power of diversity. Leaders who respect, empower and develop their employees inclusively, who recognise what makes each individual unique and can build on their core competencies and strengths.

Company culture is also hugely important. At Orbia B&I, embracing diversity is a core value – it’s embedded in everything we do and it’s constantly evolving. If you think about it, diversity is quite easy to measure – it’s looking at the gender of those in the top positions, how many people are with disabilities are hired, what’s our ethnicity split, what’s our LGBTQ+ representation, etc.

Less tangible – and therefore less easy to measure – is inclusion. For me, inclusion is the fuel that powers the diversity engine. It’s how we encourage our minority groups to collaborate and develop, feel valued, respected and empowered. Just one example would be looking at how we create equal opportunities and flexible working options for mothers returning to work after maternity leave – so they feel supported and able to thrive.

One of Orbia’s key success markers in improving diversity is to increase the representation of women and other underrepresented groups throughout the five business groups and leadership pipelines. To support us in achieving those objectives, the company has developed initiatives from talent acquisition guidelines to our Orbia Women’s Network (OWN) mentorship programme, which is helping to accelerate the development and visibility of female talent in what tends to be a very male-dominated industry. I’m a proud member and mentor myself – and because I’ve got mentees in different Orbia business groups, it brings great networking opportunities, too. It’s a good example of inclusion in action, because it encourages people to speak up, to turn challenges into opportunities with a positive mindset, show empathy and benefit from different perspectives. That blend of diversity and inclusion is how you create strong, brave teams and a working environment where everyone can perform at their best.

Which key drivers to success at Orbia B&I do you watch most?

Orbia is a proudly purpose-driven company – and at Orbia B&I, that purpose is to advance life around the world by building healthy, sustainable environments. Our employee value proposition is to bring this purpose to life. It’s a guiding principle for the way we think and act when facing some of the world’s greatest challenges, and it’s how we create products and services that improve people’s lives. For 60 years, we’ve delivered products, systems and services that create a safe & efficient water supply, better sanitation and hygiene and climate-resilient cities with advanced, energy-efficient buildings that enhance the indoor experience while minimising environmental impact. So sustainability is at the heart of what we do – and in tandem with ever-evolving innovation targets, we have multiple initiatives in place around reducing greenhouse gas emissions and waste, while improving energy efficiency.

I also keep a careful watch on B&I’s ability to adapt and flex – how well we’re optimising investments, and how agile we’re able to be in the face of market challenges, our ability to transform in order to perform, so to speak. Last but not least, giving the highest quality of service is always going to be hugely important – listening to our customers, meeting their needs and building strong relationships that stand the test of time.

What changes have you seen in the Netherlands employment market over the years – and what do you think has driven them?

It’s been nine years since I moved here – and in that time there’s been a noticeable shift. The market’s become much stronger and tighter, with more and more companies expressing a preference for native, Dutch speaking candidates over international talent. I can see the sense in this where a role requires lots of direct interaction with local authorities, or a strong working knowledge of Dutch legislation, but it could also be perceived as quite discriminatory. It’s so important to be consistent – and to promote diversity as a core company value (as many do), you have to walk the talk and demonstrate it.  

I’m proud that at Orbia, we’ll always encourage people with diverse backgrounds to apply, using our talent acquisition process to eliminate bias and create equal opportunities across the business. Following the pandemic in particular, we’ve also seen a much higher demand for flexibility and hybrid working, which has brought new matching challenges to the recruitment process – for all companies.

How do you foster a positive and productive work environment, especially in challenging times?

Through leading by example. For me, that means aligning what you say with what you do, aligning ‘what’ with ‘how’ and being authentic with your teams. You sometimes need to be brave and have difficult conversations – particularly if priorities and deadlines may affect an employee’s work/life balance. Sometimes those conversations are constructive, sometimes not – but you always learn from them. You also need to be willing to challenge the status quo – especially if you see a simpler way to achieve the same outcome. That’s always a win-win.

People respond more positively to you when you show empathy, vulnerability and implicit trust. When you treat your team as business partners, not simply as doers, and give them context, they’ll be far more motivated to walk the business mile with you.

How can a job seeker stand out in the current market?

You’ve got to be authentic – show a genuine interest in the role and the company, research the people who are interviewing you and have relevant questions up your sleeve. This is, of course, assuming you’ve reached the interview phase – which has become increasingly difficult lately with the rise of AI, even for really good quality candidates.

It’s something of a paradox that while authenticity is key, you need a CV that’s carefully tailored with key words and phrases that will pass automated screening. Given these challenges, networking and taking advantage of internal referral schemes is something I highly recommend – because this can enable you to skip the initial screening stage of the recruitment process altogether and get to talk to a person about your experience with a real chance of being able to influence the outcome

In an interview situation, I always appreciate assertiveness in a candidate – someone who knows when they need to pause and recalibrate in order to get their point across more directly. I also admire honesty and realness – answering questions in a concise way with examples, rather than giving a prefabricated speech, and sharing details about their personal life, hobbies etc.if they feel confident or comfortable with it.  This helps me work out whether they’ll be a good fit – not just culturally, but within the team.

So in a nutshell, my advice to potential candidates would be – dare to be different. Energise, engage and connect with your interviewer – don’t just answer their questions. And a smile goes a long way. Finally, treat rejections as opportunities to learn and improve, and send a thank you note to try to understand what you could have done differently to sharpen your gravitas next time.

How do you maintain a sense of joy and enthusiasm in your professional life?

For me, it’s seeing the bigger picture and my part in that – working with a sense of purpose, towards a greater good. Knowing the context – the ‘why’ – behind my work energises and motivates me. I need to feel engaged. From a practical point of view, I love finding ways to simplify complexity without lowering the bar. I love the feeling of building something and ‘making my mark’ – improving things and creating space for further growth. I’ll also find ways to celebrate small wins and practice gratitude, and I never underestimate the power of a thank you. Maintaining a good work-life balance also helps me stay ‘tuned’, in sync and enthusiastic about my professional world.

I’ve held numerous different finance roles throughout my career, which has taught me a lot about resilience – how to quickly learn and adapt to changing situations, whether that’s differing ways of working between industries, using new technologies or navigating company politics. Challenge and change are both huge motivators for me.

In your opinion, what are the most underrated skills or qualities in Finance?

So many people perceive finance as just number-crunching, but it’s about so much more than numbers. One of the most underrated skills is actually communication – telling the story behind the numbers. The ability to clearly and concisely explain complex financial issues to a diverse range of colleagues or customers (so that they truly understand) should not be underestimated.

Showing empathy is also key. Again, finance isn’t just about numbers – it’s about people too. Employees want to feel valued and part of a bigger story, not just enablers to achieve key deliverables faster. We have to engage, respect people’s time outside of office hours, check in and ask them how they’re feeling – not just when this or that project will be completed. Again, it’s about treating people as valued partners, rather than producers of data or analysis.   

We also need critical thinkers – people who can place financials within the wider context, understand what numbers tell you and how to convey that to different audiences, evaluate financial data, make sound judgements, identify patterns and outliers to assess risks, identify opportunities and solve complex problems. And finally, emotional intelligence goes a long way. When you’re able to put yourself in other people’s shoes and preempt their emotions, you foster better quality interactions, better teamwork and better outcomes all round.

How do you make sure your strategic decisions align with both Orbia’s values and market demands?

Every decision I make is guided by Orbia’s future-fit model – those non-negotiable expectations that the company has for its employees and leaders, expectations that will help us advance life around the world. It’s a structure that ensures we work safely, ethically and according to our values – Be Brave, Take Responsibility and Embrace Diversity.

Finance isn’t a back-office function at Orbia. We’re co-pilots and business partners, helping to steer the business by showing them trade-offs and helping them make key, financially sound decisions. To do this, we need people who share the same values – people with a can-do mindset, people who are ready to go the extra mile and who are excited to be part of a company that builds the future with the solutions it creates. So you need a structure, you need a core model – and you also need the right people to apply that model to make sound decisions day-to-day, in everything they do.

Thank you to Cristina for speaking to Hannah Mallia, Director in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Commercial and strategic finance leader Matthew Day is Head of Financial Planning & Analysis at Travix – a global online travel company headquartered in Amsterdam. Having spent the first 11 years of his career traversing business and finance roles at Nike, Matthew reflects on the benefits that came with making diagonal and horizontal moves – and shares the values that have shaped his open, collaborative management style.

Tell us about the most memorable moment in your career to date…

I made a few different moves throughout my time at Nike, but the most memorable was moving from my role in a centralized geography business unit to a much broader position in a territory as a functional lead (commercial finance). It was a move that got me into the thick of the business – much closer to the marketplace and the consumer, which I really wanted. It meant I had much greater exposure and visibility to others within the business, and it gave me a strong dotted line to the General Manager of that territory.

The GM already knew me and my background at Nike thus far, and that I was interested in stretching myself in roles beyond finance. There was no Commercial Director at the time, so she took a leap of faith and asked me if I could help fill that gap. I jumped at the chance and embraced it, and she trusted and encouraged me to take a steep learning curve, to make mistakes along the way and ultimately gave me a chance to grow and add value within the team.

It was challenging, but it gave me exposure to commerce, go-to-market processes, sales and account management, as well as marketing and inventory management – deepening my understanding of our product and the customer journey.

It also opened doors and proved to others that I was a credible leader outside of finance. This proved pivotal in my next position, when I moved back to the Nike brand into a commercial, strategic account management role. I had buyers I needed to work with to make sure we had a strong, commercial strategic plan – so I needed to understand upcoming products, how we were going to sell and market them, and lead a cross-functional virtual team.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did they help you grow?

Broadly speaking, it’s the fact that I chose not to take a conventional, vertical, upwards career path. I love business, so I didn’t want to specialise in finance – I wanted to build cross-functional relationships, learn and become the best generalist I could possibly be. It's helped me build credible relationships and have productive, constructive conversations with experts across functions, and taught me so much about different processes, businesses and industries.

I’ve seen my peers progress quickly within specific functions, which has felt disheartening at times – but I’m so glad I took the time and opportunities to move horizontally, and build a wider portfolio of whole-business knowledge and experience along the way.

What would you say is the most rewarding part of your role?

It’s the trust I’ve built – not just with my manager, but with my team too. It’s quite daunting coming into a new organisation, especially in an industry where you have limited experience. But I know the concepts of business, of account management, sales and marketing – and while the industry is different, the fundamentals remain the same. I’ve got ideas to put in place and I’m trusted to go ahead and act on them. That’s the most rewarding part – being challenged in exciting new ways and being part of the change.

What strategies would you suggest to someone who’s looking to pivot their career into a different industry?

It’s all about mindset. Finance professionals tend to be quite analytical, meaning we often focus on what’s wrong and how we can fix it. So if we’re looking to switch roles or functions, we’ll focus on the experience we don’t have – rather than the transferrable skills we do have, whether it’s the ability to manage stakeholders, to communicate, analyse, propose and influence… there’s so much you can carry over.

You need to focus on your strengths. If you focus on your weaknesses, all you’re going to do is make something that’s bad not-so-bad. Far better to hone your talents and turn good into great. That’s how you add value. And the things you’re not so good at? Well, that’s the beauty of a team.

Think of it like a game of football. You've got 11 players on the pitch and they're all there to win, but you don't want 11 goalkeepers playing in every position. Everybody has a different role to play. So, know what it is that you're good at and master it. Unless you're going into rocket science, it's not rocket science! There are always skills you can transfer.

What advice would you give to someone starting their career in financial planning?

It would be to look at it not just as a financial role but as an extended part of a cross-functional business team.

You’re a business partner who’s there to understand and communicate the financial implications of every decision that’s made. Every strategic move – whether that’s commercial, logistics or people-centred – comes back to the financials. So have an open mindset. Don't just see things in black and white. At the end of the year, if you don't hit the budget, it doesn't mean it's a failure. Things change along the way, and you've got to be able to adapt as you go.

Bear in mind, too, that the trajectory of your career won’t always be linear. For example, I've seen CFOs also work in sales, tech or IT – so starting in one area doesn’t mean you’ll stay there the entire time. Be open to working in and with different functions – you might just play a crucial role there that’ll make all the difference in your future development.

How do you anticipate the role of FP&A will evolve as AI and automation advances?

One word – data! I've been fortunate enough to work with dedicated financial operations data teams, and looking back now, I realise that they were world-class.

So, I can see that if you can work with and master accurate big data – data you can use end-to-end and integrate across all other parts of the business – that’s going to make the role of FP&A so much more effective. Why? Because you’ll spend less time ensuring the numbers are credible and more time actually analysing them – helping the business make better decisions off the back of what you learn.

What one piece of advice you would give your younger self or a young finance professional?

Take time to figure out who you are and be proud of that person. When you’re just starting out in your career and you meet senior leaders and executives, they can feel like rock stars – and that can be quite intimidating. People want to make a good impression, so sometimes they end up saying things or behaving in a way that isn't authentically them.

You have to focus on what you want, know your values and what it is you're willing to compromise on – and what you’re not.

I see a lot of young professionals saying they want a job “because it looks great”. But I’d ask, is it really what you want to do? Is it something that gives you energy and excites you? Why do you want to do it? If people are honest with themselves, they’re often surprised to discover that what they think they want isn’t actually what they do want. When you constantly question your motives, you can get clarity around what will truly motivate and fulfil you professionally.

How can leaders create diverse teams?

Firstly, you need to put trust in people, believe in them (sometimes more than they believe in themselves) and be willing to take a risk – just like my GM did with me back at Nike.

Some business leaders will bring in people who they've known for a long time and who they feel comfortable with – and while a lot of good can come from that, you risk ending up with a very closed collective mindset.

I think there are both business and cultural benefits to knowing your knowledge and skills gaps and taking risks – celebrating the strength in your existing team, and bringing in new people from different backgrounds, who can offer new perspectives and ways of working.

I also think it’s important to recruit with an open mind – looking for those all-important transferable skills rather than direct industry knowledge or specialisms. Take the risk on yourself, assess what’s missing from your team and don’t just go with the comfortable hire.

How do you foster a positive and productive work environment, especially in challenging times?

Throughout my career, I’ve been managed by people from different walks of life, with hugely differing experiences and perspectives. Some were quite militant and resistant to opening up – and the overall MO was “We need to get this done. Let's do it”.

Others have been more vulnerable. They'll say, “It's a stressful time. I get it and I'm in it with you. I’d love you to do the things that play to your strengths, and I’ll find a way to cover you in those weaker areas”. I’m a millennial manager, so this leadership style really resonates with me.

As a generation, I think we always want to make sure that people feel involved. So, I'm very open with my team. If things aren't ideal, I’ll tell them that. I’ll tell them we've got to make hard choices and that I'm making hard choices myself. It may not be the right choice, but I'm going to take a risk.

It's leading by example, but also showing that you don't have all the answers. And when you do that, you show your team that they don't need to, either. I’ll try to role-model the curiosity to find those answers, proactivity in who I speak to and where I go to find information. We’re people, not robots – so showing creativity and authenticity in the way you handle difficult situations makes all the difference when it comes to creating a positive and productive working environment.

What does the next five years look like for you in your career?

Honest answer – I don’t know.

When I was at university, I used to imagine all the things I would be doing in 5, 10, 15 years’ time. None of those things actually happened – and I think I’m better off for it.

Going right back to the beginning of my career as an intern at Nike, I was a sports-obsessed kid who just wanted to work for a big sports brand. I never set a goal to have the experiences that I ultimately did have, and I’m so thankful for the journey of discovery I went on.

So if I’m looking ahead, I’d say my aims are simple: to continue to being open to new experiences both at home and in work, to fine-tune and be clear on my values, what I'm good at, what I'm not good at, and be confident in that.

My North Star is General Management – but whether or not it happens in the next five years, I'm ok with that. I'll happily move sideways and ‘backwards’ if it keeps me learning. The world’s changing so quickly, you have to be present, stay curious and focus on growing as a human being. When you do that, new opportunities take care of themselves. That’s certainly been my experience over the past 15 years.

What does life outside of the office look like for you?

I’ve recently rediscovered my passion for tennis. Weirdly, when I worked for a sports company, I hardly played – and since leaving I’ve been on the court much more. It gives me so much energy and happiness – along with my dog, Jura , who’s the focal point of mine and my wife’s life.

As much as I want to do well in my career, I work to live – I don’t live to work. Time doesn’t go backwards, so I think it’s important to make the most of what we have. For me, that means being with my family, my wife and her family as much as I can.

Any final words of wisdom for our candidates?

The best managers are those who support your growth, and who help you tap into the things that have helped them in their career.

I've seen people who want to leave a company be treated as outsiders – like they’re not loyal, or only loyal to themselves and their own growth. But I believe it’s our job as both managers and as human beings to put ourselves in other people’s shoes and make them feel good about wanting to develop.

I once admitted to a past manager that I no longer felt I was learning in my role – despite being happy, enjoying what I did and liking the people I worked with. Their reaction was, “let's find those opportunities. And if you need me to share the details of people or agencies who work in this function or this industry, I'll do that for you”.

Having that conversation was so refreshing, because as hard as it was, they didn’t take it personally. I’ve been heavily influenced by that experience, and I encourage every manager to think just as objectively. Just because your star employee is leaving, if you do the right thing and show you trust in them, they’re far more likely to stay in touch and want to work with you again.

Thank you to Matthew for speaking to Kieran Hayes, Recruitment Consultant in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

David Hulsenbek is Chief Human Resources Officer for Salta Group in Hilversum – a company that builds personalised, lifelong learning solutions for businesses and educational establishments.

Salta Group employs 3,000 professionals who work for over 30 renowned labels in the training and education industry. We caught up with David to ask who and what’s inspired him over his 26-year career – and what his vision is for the future of the HR function.

What excites you about working for Salta Group?

Even before I joined Salta Group, I was fascinated by the company because there’s simply no one else that does what we do – in either the Netherlands or, we think, in Europe. We have a mission of making lifelong learning possible for everyone. It is great to work with so many professionals who live and breathe this. I’ve worked in consulting and software organisations, but this is my first experience in a company where the marketing & sales team is also at the heart of the business. Next to our engaged education professionals, that is our ‘talent engine’ – the core of our service.

Of course, education is at the heart of our mission. Everyone in the business is passionate about lifelong learning and enabling more people to develop themselves regardless of their age, stage of life or occupation.

When you boil it down, though, to build the services we build and deliver them to the people who need them, we need the very best Sales and Marketing function, run by the very best people. That’s the sweet spot. In HR, it’s not about operations or payroll. The future health of the company rests on having the right talent in place, on great performance management, on succession planning and being transparent with people about their career opportunities.

It’s my job to make sure that our next leadership combines strongly supports and grows our view on lifelong learning and can take the company forward over the next five years – a task I never imagined I’d land on so soon after starting. It’s very exciting.

What’s the most rewarding and energising part of your role – at Salta Group or more generally?

I'm very curious by nature and I love being around people – connecting with them, finding out what makes them tick and supporting them through challenges or periods of change.

I’m a licenced lawyer by trade, and I sort of ‘rolled into’ the HR function when I was looking at the legal side of employee stock options for my graduation thesis and in doing the research met a lot of really nice and interesting people with ‘HR Director’ on their business card.

I think I would always have found this role one way or another, because it’s such a perfect fit for my personality. I love the way that you sit right at the heart of a company, whilst remaining somewhat on the outside – looking inwards. You know everyone and everything that’s going on, because people can be really frank and honest with you. What I like best is balancing all those things. Yes, you can pick sides, certain opinions or arguments – but it’s really about finding solutions and a way to make things work, no matter how that looks.

Sometimes you’ve got to be firm with people, sometimes you need to put an arm around their shoulder. Sometimes there’s really hardcore work to do with unions or councils. And often it’s about making sure people feel they belong – and letting them know how much they’re loved and valued in their roles and help them improve.

A lot of the time, I don’t think people quite realise how very connected they are to the organisation they work in. There’s the legal connection with your employment agreement of course – but more than that there’s the physical connection, the emotional and psychological connection – and beyond that, the aspirations you hold within your company.

A really good HR team understands how all this is constantly at play, for everyone. You have to make sure people are in the right positions where they can grow and flourish, and also be able to have those honest conversations when things aren’t working. I love that – it fits my personality so well. I can’t imagine myself doing anything else.

Is there one leader or manager who stands out in your career – and what was it about their style that resonated with you?

Accenture was the place where I grew up professionally, so to speak – a bit of a ‘first love’ career-wise – because despite seeming tough and businesslike from the outside, it was people-first through and through. Their management was personable, which I’ve always really liked – and despite the enormous scale of the organisation, they really care about the individual and helping them grow in the direction they wanted to.

One of the execs back then ran the technology organisation for Europe. I worked closely with him for 8 years as a business partner, as his HR Manager and later as HR Director in the country that he works in. He was just himself, all day long – never playing a role, no ego, which I always admired and have since emulated.

One of the things he taught me was to never be afraid to say what you think – which sounds easy, but in practice it’s really not! Especially in situations where you don’t understand something and you need to ask questions. You have to trust your judgment and “not be afraid to be the idiot”, as I heard Simon Sinek put it the other day.

Another standout leader has to be the guy who kickstarted my career in 2001, when I was working as a recruiter in Amsterdam. At 27, I was hugely ambitious, and I’d set my sights on becoming a Recruitment Manager.

I went to the HR Director at the time and told him what I wanted – and he said, “That’s great, but you’re not ready for that yet”. I hardly had time to feel bruised by this knock-back before he came to me a few hours later, handed me his car keys and said, “We’re building a new company for Vivendi and Vodafone’s mobile Internet startup. I want you to be the lead recruiter. The team are waiting for you – drive over to their office, have a look and see if you want to do it.” This was a $500 million project, so I could hardly believe my ears. I accepted, of course, and over the next year, the role took me to Germany and then all over Europe – a fantastic adventure.

When I asked this manager why he’d trusted me with such a huge responsibility, he said something that’s always stayed with me: “Sometimes things are scary and new, but jumping and seeing what you discover is something that really suits you. You don’t think you can fly, but you’ve had wings for a long time already.”

Those words resonated at the time and they’ve stayed with me ever since. You only live once – so be authentic, never be afraid and just go for things.

Is there a particular quote or mantra that’s inspired you?

My absolute favourite is John Lennon’s “Life’s what happens to you when you're busy making other plans.” It says so much about the chaos in life – how it’s the small things happening around you – often completely outside your awareness – that you should be looking out for and learning from.

That’s why I don't really believe in 5-year career plans. Yeah, it’s admirable – but it’s much better to go with the flow, leave room for lessons and events you didn’t plan for and see where they take you.

What would you say are the key elements of really building a strong network – both internally and externally?

Again, I think it comes down to that personable approach – being really open and genuine with people. I was with a former colleague this morning, actually – one of the partners who I worked with in my previous role as an interim HR Manager. We really clicked at the time, and he updated me on the progress of one of our projects and gave me some lovely feedback.

We had that human connection which I think is so important in business. Sometimes you hold each other’s hands through the storm, sometimes you learn from one another. I just love when people leave their differences at the door and come together, help each other out, share knowledge and find each other's strengths and development points without ego. It’s so powerful.  When there are clear, shared goals in an internal network, when everyone is on board with the business’s strategy, that’s when progress picks up real pace and you start to see an impact.

It takes great communication, explaining your strategy and choices as a company – but if everyone knows what their organisation is about, they can run in the right direction without having to be told. It may feel like a bit of a cliché but it’s true. I still play football every Friday night and you see the same thing – when 11 guys are chasing a ball and one of them scores, everyone’s happy. Why is that? Because it’s fun – and because you did it together.

How is Environmental, Social and Governance (ESG) impacting Salta Group as a business?

Sustainability is high on Salta’s agenda – and so it should be, for all businesses. I think everyone understands now how important it is that we take care of the planet better than we've done in past decades.

What I really like about the whole ESG approach is that (coming from the EU), it’s very structured – and it’s great that as a company, we’re able to do good in the world through more than just our business goals. The advantage of being a bit behind the curve in this area is that we’ve had a lot of players in the market that we can learn from and follow their lead. It’s also an area where people’s personal beliefs naturally produce a lot of energy and effort.

On the board, we’re using the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals to help us drill down into the moral and ethical goals of our company. What do we want to contribute? What do we want our approach to be? You don’t find these discussions in most boardrooms, but this is something we have to do – not just because it’s a formal obligation but because we all have kids and because we want to feel proud of what we left behind, not guilty.

How do you see the HR function evolving in future?

If you look at the trends of the past 10-15 years, it’s clear that technology will play a larger role. New HR information systems are coming along all the time, each one better and easier to implement than the last, with new and improved functionality.   

At the same time, it’s a very fragmented landscape – so it's important not to overload people with too many different systems to manage. Ultimately, my vision would be for all these great tools to be sophisticated enough to handle all the exceptions you get in HR, so you can focus more on developing talent than on the complex legalisation of everything.

To take one example, I’ve just met with a colleague who’s relocating to the US for his wife’s job. We appreciate and value him, he wants to carry on working for Salta Group and we want to make that possible. But getting the fiscal and legal side of things straight is incredibly frustrating (and expensive!), to say the least! It shouldn’t be that difficult – there’s so much risk-averse thinking, and it’s hampering us.

Perhaps it’s a Nirvana mindset, but I believe HR should be all about talent.

If you know what you stand for as a company, if you know what kind of people you need, you get them on board and that marriage is strong, then you’re in a position where you can help them and they can help you. That’s when you see real impact, real growth and change for the better.

Thank you to David for speaking to Katie Insley, Associate Director in our Human Resources recruitment team in the Netherlands. 

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Aryuna McGloin is a Financial Planning & Analysis Director for Spryker – a rapidly growing e-commerce software creator headquartered in Berlin.

Aryuna spoke to us about driving ambitious business growth in a forward-thinking, people-centered company, Spryker’s unique and rigorous hiring approach, and why having a personal growth mindset is so important when it comes to standing out from the crowd.

What excites you about working for Spryker?

I started my journey with Spryker about two years ago, having spent more than a decade working for Nike. The move from a large, corporate environment to the much smaller set-up here was a big change for me – and hugely exciting.

Spryker is a leader in the field of composable commerce software and is well respected for its innovative spirit. We’ve been recognized as a Visionary for three consecutive years by Gartner – a leading insights company, which positions and compares players in the major technology markets. That is something we cherish and plan to evolve further.

What struck me first at Spryker was the people – a group of friendly and passionate individuals spread across 50-plus countries who genuinely care about the brand and the business. We call ourselves "The Herd" and are proud to be part of it. 

I love Spryker’s FLOW approach to work-life balance, too. We benefit from unlimited holidays and can operate a flexible schedule. So, if you want to pack your morning, then take time out for your children, a walk, a workout – whatever it is – you can. 

We’re able to pick up our roles from anywhere, too, so a lot of the younger team members travel from country to country working from different places all the time. I’m a little more tied, due to family commitments (not at all jealous, honestly!), but I’ve had a taste of this kind of flexibility – combining a holiday trip with dedicated working time. 

Being fully remote also means we have access to the best choice of talent from all over the world, and our people can live wherever makes them happy, whether that’s city centers or in the middle of the countryside. 

How would you describe the culture at Spryker?

It’s very much people-first – after all, our people are the key element of the company's success. We say, that whoever you are, wherever you come from, and wherever you’re going in life, you’re welcome to join The Herd. We aim to ensure that our people feel valued, autonomous, invested, and cared for. 

This creates a sense of togetherness where we appreciate so-called herd player qualities. We care about what we work on but also about our impact on other people. Staying conscious of your behavior and how you support others is important. We also are not afraid to make mistakes, accept feedback, and keep an open mind to different solutions. 

We attentively hire and develop the right individuals, making sure they are involved in projects and tasks that interest and motivate them, so they stay passionate about their work. 

That trickles down to Finance, as well. When hiring, we look for individuals who are curious and proactive to find creative solutions to seemingly mundane Finance challenges – people who don’t just accept the status quo but look for the best answer to a particular problem. During the hiring process, we assess how conscientious, proactive, and open to new ideas they are. It's not a standard way of working, but it’s so effective. 

What are the key drivers of success within Spryker?

First, it has to be innovation and effectiveness – both ingrained in our culture and also reflected in our results. We aren’t afraid to run tests and pilots to make sure that we find new and better ways of doing things. 

For example, as soon as artificial intelligence came onto the horizon, we quickly created an AI steering committee to help break down barriers to acceptance and find ways to incorporate this into our daily working lives. From there, we developed a framework in which people are celebrated for proposing the best AI solutions for our products. 

Secondly, it’s our people. Are we hiring the best talent? We empower our employees to be the most capable and dedicated team that delivers exceptional results. 

To that end, learning and development are massive drivers of success, so we offer a wide range of options, from company-wide or team-specific training on our products right through to workshops on problem-solving and presentation skills. We want to help people grow with the company and to come on this journey with us. 

How does Spryker minimise bias in the hiring process?

We do this in two ways. Firstly, for every role across the company, we have a list of specific DNA traits that we look for and we shortlist based on these before involving the hiring manager. That way, we can be sure we’re matching them with people who are a cultural fit, regardless of their background or experience.  

We also created a final stage in our hiring process, whereby we ask someone who sits outside the hiring function to assess objectively candidates’ future potential, leadership skills, etc. to ensure we continue raising the bar with the people we bring on board. 

As for my team members, I’m curious to look at professionals across the whole of Europe, which broadens the horizons and brings a truly diverse group of promising candidates to the table. 

How does Spryker retain high-potential employees?

We believe in the power of creating an environment and work culture that everyone wants to be in. I’ve already mentioned the training and development opportunities, so - after that - it’s really about the day-to-day. We make sure people’s roles and responsibilities are clear, and that we’re providing all the necessary onboarding and tools to ensure they’re successful from day one. People need to be able to measure their own progress, so we have constant feedback cycles, salary reviews, and career development plans to ensure we keep them engaged. 

Our framework is set up so that employees can get involved in as many projects as they have the capacity for and see the impact of their actions. Coming from a much larger company, that’s something that stood out for me since I started at Spryker – decisions can be made quickly, and executed fast, and you can always see the difference you’re making. 

How does Spryker raise awareness around mental health and wellbeing?

The SaaS (Software as a Service) business is notoriously volatile, and things change very quickly, so you have to be resilient and adaptable. We have been running an internal campaign to educate our people on the relevance of the mental health topic.

Our flow approach – choosing your own way of working – helps people to cope with the demands of our industry. We’re also introducing initiatives such as no-meetings days and hours, so you can schedule focused and productive working time without the distraction of plugging into conversations along the way. 

Our Diversity & Inclusion team also runs workshops around creating balance in corporate life, and we’ve recently introduced a new employee benefit, giving colleagues access to mental health professionals across the globe. I’ve heard great feedback about it. 

What are the biggest challenges you’ll face in your role, and as a business, over the next 12 months?

There has been a big shift in the SaaS business environment. Once upon a time, it was all about growth over profit. Now, it’s very much about both, which of course means a lot of work for my team and leadership teams to ensure we reach our goals.

One subject on many companies’ minds is AI and how it’ll impact strategy over the coming three to five years. We have been working on selecting and incorporating AI tools in the most smart and efficient way.

What is a personal highlight of your career so far?

One that comes straight to mind was in my role as Strategic Finance Director. I was asked to set up a year-long leadership shadowing program, choosing forward-looking individuals from a 400-strong Finance division – people who really wanted to look into innovation and work on disruptive projects with a more agile approach. 

The team was made up of a great mix of people at different levels and from different functions – from analysts to directors. I created an environment where they could come up with some really fruitful ideas, and their sessions were a pleasure to facilitate.

Another career highlight has to be my move to Spryker. It wasn’t until I’d started the role that I realized how personally important it is for me to see the impact of my work, and to be able to find new, creative solutions within the Finance function. In this environment, it’s much easier for me to progress new ideas, and influence people and key decisions. 

If you could change one thing in your career, what would it be?

I would have made the shift to the SaaS industry earlier. I worked at Nike for ten years, built up a lot of experience, and worked with amazing people, but it was a long time in one place. I knew I wanted to make a shift, but I wasn’t sure to what or how I’d get there. It’s exciting to discover a life outside that environment and get my teeth into something new. 

What risks have you taken in your career to reach the level you’re at now?

I’ve been consciously intentional about any changes I’ve made. Some people would call it risky moving countries, changing industries, taking temporary contracts for maternity cover with no guaranteed future, but my main motivator has always been, does this role fascinate me?

I think the key to success is doing something you like for a business that interests you. When risks are well thought through, they usually pay off. 

What advice would you give to someone starting their career in Finance?

I’m a big cheerleader for personal and professional development. The world is changing so fast, especially within Finance, so you need to stay up to date with the latest trends in the market, assess what skills you need, and keep learning. 

I use a range of different tools to keep myself well in-the-know – from LinkedIn Learning to Coursera, which offers some great SaaS-specific training. 

Another piece of advice would be to focus on building trust with people you work with, whether they are your peers or business partners. This goes a long mile in any role but in Finance it's even more important.

How can a job-seeker stand out in the current market?

I’ve always said that whatever you do in your current job, do it to the best of your ability. That way, the references you get will be your biggest selling point. Or, if you’re going for a role within a company you already work for, don’t be afraid to go and talk to the hiring manager and ask for their feedback. 

You also need to find a way to show off the qualities that don’t always shine through on a CV or your LinkedIn profile, like proactivity, problem-solving, emotional humility, and passion for your industry or role. 

What are your best hiring experiences?

The best interviews are always the ones where a candidate shows curiosity and interest in the company and the industry. They’ve gone the extra mile with their research – not just Googling the top-line facts but going deeper to look at business goals and how we’re positioned against our competitors. These are also people who show strategic thinking and willingness to learn – even during the interview. 

I love asking them problem-solving questions where there’s no right answer. Well-prepared, passionate, and motivated individuals can discuss topics outside of their comfort zone and accept any mistakes they might make.

What’s the last thing that made you smile?

I have a nine-year-old daughter and a five-year-old son, and I may be biased, but they’re very funny! Before this interview, I was sitting in my office working and I overheard part of a conversation my little boy was having with his nanny – catching him express the random thoughts that come into his head is hilarious. 

We don’t have family living nearby, so the support I get from my partner and our childminder is as vital to my professional life as anything else. It means I can be fully present with my work, and then I can be fully present with my children – and I’m so grateful for that.

Can you recommend any great reads?

I’ve just finished, Dare to Lead by Brené Brown – a super helpful and practical guide to being humble and vulnerable in a leadership role.

Another is a bit unusual. It’s called The Accidental Creative – How to be brilliant at a moment’s notice, by Todd Henry. It’s all about how to be prolific and creative in your life and work, with lots of great tips on planning and managing your day.

What’s your favourite motto and why?

It’s actually written on my phone case – “Remember my vision.”

It was a career coach at Nike who suggested having physical reminders of my goals all around me. We grab our phones all the time, so this keeps me mindful of where I’m going and prevents me from veering off track. It’s a good little tip for anyone passionate about personal growth.

Thank you to Aryuna for speaking to Georgia Wright, Director in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment. 

Amrish Shah is the Amsterdam-based CFO at Metabolic, a company on a mission to build a sustainable economy by helping organisations and policy makers tackle sustainability challenges by addressing underlying systems and scalability.

Previously, Amrish worked for more than a decade with FMCG multinational Unilever, as well as O’Neill and Staples. He completed interim assignments at organisations including Kao Corporation, Royal Wessanen and Endemol Shine.

What has been the biggest challenge for you since leaving Unilever?

I left in 2008, so 15 years ago. I would say the biggest challenge at that point was just the fear of leaving something that was very comfortable, that I had really grown up with for the first 13 years of my career, and then taking a step into the unknown.

Also, imposter syndrome – are you going to be good enough? It's easy to benchmark yourself against people that you know very well somewhere like Unilever or any organisation, but - when you're outside - you don't know what you’re going to be confronted with.

I think you have to have a lot of resilience and the confidence to just go for it, but you will have doubts… The biggest one was the move to O'Neill, which was the first move I made after Unilever; it was a huge amount of change for me personally and professionally, and I didn't realise it until I looked back a few years later.

After that, one of the big challenges is to just go with the flow, because many of these things are not a controlled process; sometimes opportunities come up and life is not planned. So, it was really about being clear about the career path I wanted to craft and where I wanted to build deep expertise.

I found that in Business Control, around the most strategic Finance side, and I had the opportunity at places like Kao, Endemol Shine, and Staples to do that.

Two other big challenges that were impactful in different ways surround the fit with people. You're so used to a certain type of person at Unilever, in terms of sparring partners, people who are quite creative with good ideas and ambitious, etc. When you go outside, you just don't know what kind of people and culture you are joining. That was one of the things I faced when I was at Staples; it was a very different group of people who worked there, yet you get used to that.

The last thing I would mention is Unilever was very professional. But then, when you go to smaller organisations like O'Neill, Metabolic, and Climate-KIC, these are less resource-rich environments.

You have to get used to the lack of professional structures and that's a challenge. But there's a flip side, because you can contribute to doing something really impactful and helping build that.  So, I think that freedom is the other side of the coin, which is quite energising - it's a challenge to first understand and then embrace that.

You've implemented a lot of change. How have you managed the changes in your career and the diversity in the sectors that you've worked in as a leader?

When I started my career, people thought they were going to change employers maybe two or three times in their career and the idea of staying for quite a while with one employer or one organisation was more normal.

Things have changed so much now; the idea of having these portfolio careers - where you might end up working for ten different organisations, maybe for yourself for part of your career - is a lot more normal and people are a lot more comfortable with that.

I have moved quite a lot. I started my career back in the ‘90s and I've had a lot of exposure in different sectors, but also different types of organisations, not just the size, but different ownership.

I always ask myself three things when I'm making a change: What is the organisation like? Thinking about whether I am going to fit there, and whether I am going to add something culturally. I think that becomes more important with senior roles.

Secondly: What am I curious to learn?

The other thing is the role itself - the last bit of the triangle. Will the role that I'm going into continue to stretch me professionally and will it have an impact on the organisation?

I've managed my moves by looking at those three things every time I've been in the position to choose where to go and that's really important.

But I come back to what I mentioned earlier - sometimes life isn't all planned. Sometimes things come to a natural end. Unilever was a natural end for me after 13 years to say, “I don't think I'm going to get what I'm looking for, the stretch in the role, I need to go out and face the unknown.”

I think Endemol came to a natural end simply because it got sold, and that also means that sometimes what you're doing - especially as an interim - comes to an end.

Metabolic, where I'm now CFO, wasn't something that was planned. It just happened out of an opportunity that came up because of Climate-KIC, where I was working. You have to be in the right place, at the right time, to talk to the right people - then suddenly good things can happen.

I'm sure we’ll talk or touch upon it later, but I went from a permanent phase to the interim phase out of curiosity. So, there are always a few things that drive you to work, but I always come back and ask myself: Is it the right organisation? Is it the right role? And what's in it for me as a person?

How do you retain and develop talent?

What’s important when you talk about talent development is being clear about the job that you've been brought in to do and what that means in terms of growing the talent that you have. It's about framing your goals and the objectives of the thing you're doing.

One of the examples I can give is about making sure you have the right people in the right place. At O'Neill, we were going through a lot of change and there was a big team that I inherited right at the beginning. You have to look at the challenges that we have with the things that the business expects us to do. Do I feel we have the right people in the right seats, and, if not, how do we shuffle that around to ensure that we do?

Sometimes, that also means you have to look externally, as we don't have the talent inside. But that's an opportunity for people internally to learn from those who come externally; it shouldn't be seen as a bad sign if you're bringing people in from the outside.

The other example is always motivating people, certainly in Finance, by creating a very motivating agenda. If you take the example of smaller organisations, like Climate-KIC, these are small teams, and I have people who don't necessarily come from a Finance background. They've just ended up in those positions coming from an administrative perspective; they don't necessarily know a lot about broader Finance.

But creating an agenda allows them to learn about that, exposes them to that, plus demands that they become interested in that as part of their core financial role.

I think retention is important. As a leader, you have the responsibility to stand up for your team. As an example, at Staples, there were a number of people who wanted to reduce the size of the team I was responsible for.

You have a position where you can say whether you believe that is the right thing to do in the long term for the business. If you don't believe in it, then you have to propose a different solution and not just accept things.

You have to fight for it as long as you can, because you're talking about people. People need to have a good experience in that organisation and feel valued.

Over the last few years, we've had the pandemic and a culture change with remote working. How do you motivate your Finance professionals with all those changes coming through?

These changes have been big, and they don't just impact Finance - they impact everybody. Ukraine is something we've been living with for a while - almost two years - and there is also what is happening now in the Middle East. It's just stuff that creates a lot of distress for many people.

To that, I will add climate anxiety, which is something close to my heart, because people increasingly feeling anxious about having a planet that's habitable moving forward.

There is also artificial intelligence (AI). Technology has always been there in different forms, but AI is causing a lot of stress now as to what that means.

Additionally, the examples I have just given are causing a lot of disruption and that can be destabilising.

I have a Ukrainian in my team now at Metabolic. She was living in the Netherlands and she's now in Italy, but she's from Ukraine and her family is in Ukraine. Seeing how that affects her is quite eye-opening, and I think it made me realise how resilient the human soul is - people still get on with things and try to bring their best selves to work every day.

As a leader, it's about creating an environment where people feel okay to be emotional and have an environment where they can voice their frustrations about the things that they are going through, because there is nothing anybody as an individual can do to control some of these big events.

When you're in the pandemic, you can't change as an individual. But it comes into your mind quite deeply. So, it's about really creating an environment where there is empathy and support for people.

COVID was an interesting one, because I have been used to working remotely and managing teams remotely before then. COVID made people assess or reassess their priorities. In general, I think it's been good for people feeling more comfortable about what they're bringing back into work.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I think still having enough physical time together in an office environment is important for connection, for giving both positive and constructive feedback. Personally, I find those things are much easier when you're in the same physical space as somebody, compared to virtually.

Also, managing wellbeing – which is a very big topic now right – is harder when you're only virtual, so I think you need to have some space where you can come together, sense if somebody's going through something that's challenging; that’s easier to do in person than on Teams.

The other day, there was a report published that stated the percentage of people in the working population that are burned out. In the Netherlands, it is 16%. Firstly, that is an insanely high number. That is difficult to manage, whether virtual or not and under any circumstances.

So, I think remote working in general has been good, but it's changed the way we talk with people about how to set healthy boundaries, how to be vulnerable, and how to reach out.

In the end, I think motivating Finance professionals is still around the impact that they're having - why is the work they're doing important? It doesn't matter so much whether you're doing that in an office environment or if you're sitting at home - you need to always come back to that connection of what you are doing and why it is important.

What risks have you taken throughout your career and how did that help you get to this level?

Sometimes, you don't feel you're taking a risk, because it just seems normal. It's only when you look back and think it’s crazy!

I want to differentiate people who take real risks in their careers and those who haven’t. For example, people working in physical danger, people starting their own businesses, people who work in exposed working conditions, people who flirt with fraud or try to do something at the margins of the law… These are real risks that people can take in their careers.

I haven't done any of that, so I always ask from a risk perspective “what is at stake? What am I really risking here?” And “what if it doesn't work out?”

What's also important for me is to always think about whether it is just me that it impacts professionally or personally. Does it impact other people around me? I think that's a really nuanced one, because normally you can't focus on your career without it bringing in other people who are the closest to you.  

The last thing I always look at is your appetite for risk or the level of change you're willing to accept. That's a very personal thing; for you, it may be a very different calculation of what you’re willing to accept versus for me.

If I look back at what I have done and how I've managed that throughout my career, there are not many things I would say were very risky. That is because there was always some kind of safety net in the event that a particular decision didn’t work out well.

One risk was when I went from permanent to interim, because people say if you're one, you can't do the other. It's the same if you move from a commercial organisation to one that is not commercial or not fully commercial. Most of my life has been spent working in fully commercial organisations, except for the role that I'm in now and the one prior.

Sometimes, people say, if you've been in that space for a long time, you're not ruthless enough to make tough decisions, which is what you need in commercial organisations. That is not true, but it's a perspective and a belief people can have. So, that compounds the risk when you move sectors.

The biggest risk I took was probably at O'Neill, because I didn't realise then how much change I had taken on and how much could have gone wrong.  

The other risk was probably the Climate-KIC role, where I was Group Controller. That wasn't developmentally stretching for me - but this comes back to the point that every role doesn't always need to be a promotion. Life isn't always a straight line; sometimes you do a zigzag, you go sideways, etc. But you're always thinking about what you’re learning from it and the impact it has on the organisation.

In the future, the biggest risk I probably could take is if I decided to change and move out of Finance and do something else. So far, I haven't been forced to do that or had to face doing that, but that could feel quite risky.

Let's talk about how you've managed risk and governance in these interim roles that you've worked in.

People think risk and governance is a boring topic, but I love it, because it's important for the role of Finance.

The first time I had real exposure to this was at O'Neill, because I was responsible for the entire risk and control framework. In the end, it comes down to change again. Most organisations don't really appreciate risk, governance, or control for different reasons; they don't like risk, because the moment people start to address risk, they think it's a constraint on opportunity.

What I have tried to always do in my roles is say there are two sides of the same coin. You want to start by thinking about risk to avoid doing stupid things, because - if you do stupid things - you won't be able to take opportunities.

Whereas, if you take smart risks, you'll know you are in a better position to be able to take opportunities, as well. That's a big mindset change for many people who are responsible for selling things and making things.

The moment you mention the word control, everybody goes, “I think it is time to clock off.” People miss the point about control, but it's up to us in Finance to reframe it. Control is something positive; we pay attention to the things that can help us and prevent things from breaking that could hurt us.

Again, this is about the storytelling; building the narrative about how control can help people achieve their objectives and their targets in a better and smarter way than if you were to totally ignore it - I think that's really important.

For example, at Staples, we were bolder with pricing, trying to not be afraid of increases. That’s quite scary, as you don't know what the customers are going to do, and you always worry.

You have to put some controls in place. Some customers might walk away - there's not a lot you can do, as you can't control their behaviour. We can - at least be satisfied that we have done all the things we wanted to do, but you've got to monitor and control that.

Governance is more interesting and different, because it’s about decision making, transparency, and the culture you want to create. It’s about having some oversight that is helpful in making sure we stay on the right course.

But governance is very tricky for many organisations, because there are some politics involved. Also, for smaller organisations, it's something they tend not to think about, because they’re very busy hustling.

At the same time, people mistake governance as control, and it isn't. When you’re in smaller organisations and they're experimenting with different forms of organisation, any form of governance which is oversight can be seen as a form of control, but it's not. It's about transparency and giving people the clarity of where they need to go.

How do you manage business partnering and performance management within that?

Coming back to the previous question, I think everything around risk, control and governance is related to one thing: performance.

It's about trying to get the organisation to perform in a way that meets its objectives. Business partnering really gets to the heart of how we, as Finance, help the organisation to perform.

In the end, we are providing a service, and that service is based on information. We're trying to influence people to make the right decisions. Those decisions are going to lead to a financial outcome in the future, so they're either going to create an asset in the future, which will be the good thing, or they'll create a liability.

Ultimately, everything we do or don't do has an impact financially, one way or the other.

Performance management can be uncomfortable. I have been in situations where I’m partnering with senior leaders and you see how uncomfortable trying to become more performance-oriented is, because it's confrontational; it forces you to admit sometimes that maybe you've done the wrong thing.

We're all human beings and there's one thing we don't like. It's not actually failing itself, it's the thought of failing that makes us nervous. I think that's why it's a story of change and how we do it.

That's why finding good business partners in Finance is not that easy, because there's a different set of skills that they all need to have. For example, if you're dealing with data and information, you need to have good data management skills. You also need to be passionate about things that seem boring. You need to be able to construct good analytical models, have a clear logical way of thinking, and be able to structure that.

Finally, when you are at the table, you need strong facilitation skills to bring people towards a decision. In some cases, also conflict management.

These are very different skill sets and finding them in a single person is not that easy.

What’s the most memorable moment from your career and why?

There’s been a few. One of the most memorable moments was when we got into the process of selling the frozen food business in Unilever.

It was about a year-and-a-half from beginning to end - April 2005 to November 2006 - when we finally completed the deal. There were many different phases, but that whole thing was memorable for me, because you have to work very hard.

You’re doing two jobs. One is your operational role as a Finance Director for the business, because business goes on. But, on the other hand, you are supporting the entire process, which is a lot of work.

But that gives energy back, because you are exposed to things you may never be before in your life. You're dealing with vendors, due diligence, lawyers, investment bankers, trying to create the information memorandum and the business case.

You get involved with completion accounts, doing the P&L on disposal, you’re responsible for working capital settlement… You get involved in many different work streams and you are the point person in many of those. That gives amazing energy, but it’s a lot of hard work.

In the end, it was a successful disposal; we sold it for a good price, which led to a big profit for Unilever. That was the cherry on top, away from just the process.

The second memorable bit was I got the call one day after my first boy was born.

I was at home just relaxing a bit, waiting for the midwife to come in and help us with how we should deal with the baby at home. I got a call saying, “The decision has been taken, enjoy the next few days, but next week it's full on, we have to start preparing stuff.” That made it a little bit more memorable.

What's your favourite quote?

I have a list of a lot of quotes. When we were talking about motivating Finance people there were two, I thought were quite appropriate. The first is by Joseph Conrad. He wrote Apocalypse Now and said: “I don't like work, no man does, but I like what is in the work - the chance to find yourself.”

The second is by Ralph Waldo Emerson, a famous American poet, essayist, philosopher and social reformer. He said, “the reward of a thing well done is to have done it”.

When you really get immersed in challenging yourself, you take pride in the quality of what you're doing and the impact you're delivering.

We've talked about change a lot and that's something I am very passionate about in my roles. There are a couple of things around change that are quite relevant for us to bear in mind. There's a guy, James Baldwin, a well-known American writer and civil rights activist, and he said: “Not everything that you face can be changed, but nothing can be changed until you face it.”

I think that's important when we talk about Finance and its role in supporting any kind of transformation or material change.

The last one around change is from Tolstoy, the famous Russian author. He’s a bit cynical here, but what he says feels very relevant to the space I am in now, because we deal with organisations formulating their approach climate change. He said: Everyone thinks about changing the world, but no one thinks about changing himself.”

That really made me stop when I read that for the first time, because he’s asking, what are you prepared to do to change yourself, to help other people change also? This quote really made me think.

Lastly, we touched upon how our professional journey can mirror that of life itself – in that despite all the planning and positioning, it is - more often than not - unpredictable. Things happen. So, I really like a quote by Dale Carnegie, a famous American writer and lecturer focused on self-improvement who said, “success is getting what you want, happiness is wanting what you get”. Something that can help a lot with maintaining perspective and sanity!

As a business, we support Operation Smile, a charity that helps children with cleft lip and palate. So, what was the last thing that made you smile?

There's a lot of funny things that make me smile. I think we don't use humour enough at work, because sometimes we take ourselves too seriously and we shouldn't - unless you're a firefighter.

In general, what we do matters, but we should sometimes also be able to laugh at ourselves, because we are human beings and we do stupid things.

We have two retreats in Metabolic: a big Spring retreat around March, focussed on strategy coming together and aligning our plans.

Then a Summer retreat, which is more social, and takes place around the end of August when the new school year starts.

I went for my first one a few months ago. It's three days of camping out and, apart from the Dutch weather, it’s good. The last evening is always a big fancy dress party, and you have to dress up. I had a prisoner outfit, a wig, and a necklace and stuff. I was just hanging around, and people were quite impressed, because it was quite ‘in your face’.

I had a gold necklace with the word “freak” on it, and somebody said, “I finally understand what the abbreviation CFO stands for: Chief Freak Officer.” That made me double up with laughter, thinking somebody really gets the kind of stresses of the job. I'm literally freaking out every minute!  

We had a lot of laughs about that, and we spread the word and the gospel of the Chief Freak Officer. So, that made me smile.

Thank you to Amrish for speaking to Michael Bentil, Senior Consultant in our Finance & Accountancy recruitment team in the Netherlands.

Views and opinions contained within our Executive Interviews are those of the interviewee and not views shared by EMEA Recruitment.